So this weekend is probably the first big weekend for college ultimate. I for one love college disc, probably more than club, because there is so much history, pride, spirit, and best of all, turn over. You have teams like Florida that came out of nowhere to win nationals in 2006, UCSB has been off the radar for awhile but they are coming back with a vengance, Oregon looks like they are ready to make it back to the finals. Also, there are teams that are close to the top every year. It has got to be extremely difficult to be among these teams because players can only play college for so long. Wisconsin, Stanford, and Colorado all did very well last year but they have been at the top for so long, which should serve as a reminder that these are "true programs" and will always be at the top.
So with that in mind, this weekend there will be 5 tournaments scattered throughout the country that will pit some of the best programs against one another. These tournies are 1) Sean Ryan in Santa Cruz, CA, 2) Missouri Loves Company in Jefferson City, MO, 3) Delaware Showdown in Newark, DE, 4) Sundodger in Burlington, WA, and 5) Brown in Providence RI. Of these 5 tournaments 10 of the 2006 college nationals teams will be playing: 1) Wisconsin 2) Colorado 3) Stanford 4) Carleton 5) Oregon 6) Indiana 7) Ohio State 8) Delaware 9) Brown 10) Kansas. I dunno about other folks out there but I am amped for the college season and I wanted to talk about each of these tournies and some others that have happened or are happening soon.
First off I should say that these are fall tournies and the results are pretty worthless. A lot of these teams are going as split squads or only sending certain players so they are defintely not at their best, but it is nice to have these teams play eachother so early. I can remember a time when most of the best teams never saw eachother outside of centex, ultimax, southerns, or nationals. Now they are playing in November?!?! Awesome.
Sean Ryan
This is a tourney that is dedicated to the memory of Sean Ryan, who was part of the Santa Cruz ultimate team from 91-95. He was an avid outdoors men and became a park ranger after college. However, he died tragically during a resuce. In his memory, the UCSC team created the Sean Ryan Award for a person on both the men's and women's team that embodies the spirit of Sean Ryan. Sammy CK won this when he was an undergrad there in 2002. This tourney is the first really bad ass west coast tourney. It used to be that there was only this and SoCal in San Diego. The SW teams went to SoCal and the NW teams went to Sean Ryan. However, this year there will be teams from all over the west coast in attendance. First Stanford, ok their my boys, and they have won this tourney. They have been to the semis at nationals 5 times in the last 6 years, they are gonna be awesome this year. Oregon is also gonna be there. A team that used to win tournies (NW regionals and Pres Day back in the Ben Wiggins era, 2003). They won regionals in 2006, made quarters at nationals this past year and they are arguably the best young team in the country. They are ready to break into the top 4 at nationals. Black Tide will be there as the 3 seed. This team is ready to make another nationals run. They gave Colorado a close game at SW regionals last May and they are ready to take that 1st/2nd bid out of the SW. UCSD will make their first apperance at this tournament. When I was there, it was only SoCal in the fall which kinda sucks. I am really glad they are sending a team this year. UCSC and Cal will also be there and my sources say that they were the top teams at Santa Clara last weekend. LPC is also a quality team that seems to be the rock in a lot of elite team's shoes due to their cagey veterans and experience, thank god for Div III nationals. Other SoCal notables include UCLA and Claremont. It is nice to see that the SW is finally playing tournaments in the fall, something that should have been done a long time ago.
Missouri Loves Company
This is probably one of the top 3 fall tournies. I would say #1 is Classic City Classic, #2 Fall Collegiates and this would be #3. This year it will be the first look we'll get at Wisconsin and Colorado. I would say Wisconsin is the pre-season favorite and there are the annual Beau rumors circling about eligibility and what not. Carleton will also be there. Despite losing Goldstein, I think this team is the real deal. They picked up Christain Foster (2006 Junior World's #1 scorer) from Connnecicut College. I got the chance to play against him a number of times. Definitely fast, great throws and plays bigger than he looks, too bad he isn't as well liked off the field. Maybe he'll like North Field better than New London. Indiana, Ohio State, and Kansas will be there, not to mention Wisconsin Whitewater (2007 Div III national champs). Michigan will be there as well. Probably hoping to get back on that nationals horse. Too bad there is no Texas, we'll have to wait till CCC to hear that "Texas Texas Yee-HA!!" cheer (yuck).
Sundodger
This is a tournament I am not very familiar with but exciting none the less. There aren't any nationals qualifiers but there are 3 programs that will be making their '07-'08 debut in Washington, UBC, and Western Washington. I think Washington is a good team, they have been at nationals recently although not withouth Ray Illian. UBC is also another team that has shown signs of greatness. I think they were at their best in 2006 when they still had Oscar and Morgan and made the finals at Stanford. They had a good showing at Canadian College nationals, despite losing 15-11 in the finals to Toronto. Morgan was on the team in Vancover, I wonder if he is still on the team now. I also like seeing a new face in NW college disc in Western Washington. They have been knipping at Stanford's, Oregon, Cal, and the rest of the NW's heals and they are right at the edge of breaking into late Sunday play at regionals. I hope they can at least make semis at regionals this year.
Delaware Showdown and Brown
I wouldn't call these elite tournies persee but they will have Delaware and Brown at them. I wonder what the weather in Newark is gonna be like because Providence is gonna SUCK. Hopefully no one gets hurt or frostbitten.
There have also been some good tournies that have already happened in Fall Collegiates, Purple Valley, and Coffee Cup. I suggest reading Mike Gerics' write up of the UNC/Pitt final at Fall Collegiates on RSD, sounded like it was a GREAT game. Purple Valley had Harvard winning the whole thing. They have this kid, Zirui Song, from Johns Hopkins. Guy is nasty, very Will Chen esk. Played against him and Johnston while they were with New Noise. Not sure of their eligibilty status, but they can really help out a veteran Harvard team coached by the psychotic Josh McCarthy. Coffee Cup wasn't as exciting as it could have been. Weather made it only a one day tourney but Williams managed to win the thing.
Classic City Classic is also coming up December 1-2 in Tennessee. This will be the first chance we'll have at seeing Florida, Texas and Georgia. I am also amazed at what teams go to this thing. I don't know who plans it, but Cal has been in attendance in the past and I can't believe Colorado and Wisconsin are going to this and MLC. Those that think that disc is just a sport in the spring aren't paying attention to all these tournies. I am excited.
match diesel
Thursday, November 8, 2007
College Disc: 1st Big Weekend
Posted by Match at 11:30 AM
Labels: Brown, Carleton, Colorado, Delaware, Ohio State, Oregon, Santa Cruz, Stanford, Wisconsin
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18 comments:
Watch out for Carleton. Here is a picture of Sam Kanner watching Stanford celebrate their 17-16 win in pool play at Nationals last year. Dude is pissed. Most of his team mates have walked over to the sideline by now. Makes me think he'll be working harder than ever to destroy people on the field... he doesn't ever want to have to feel that again.
You're right, Western Washington is not the team they were 5 years ago... they are twice the team they were.
Holy sballs! WW will be nipping at the heels of Stanford and Oregon all season. Look for them to be in a game-to-go to Nats.
...and that game-to-go will be against Stanford... in the backdoor.
figureoutthoseimplications
So how much college eligibility does Castine have? This should be treated as his 3rd year, if he's the one at WW.
So Match, I just want to say, I like your blog. You write about the stuff that I wish I could write about but can't because of my role with the UPA and my relationships with players. I think you are wrong a lot, but that doesn't make your blog bad :)
That said here are some things I think you are wrong about:
MLC is leagues better than Fall Collegiates. The top three teams at that tourney (Carleton, Wisconsin, and Colorado) would run away with Collegiates.
Carleton, not Oregon, is the best young college team this year. With pick-ups like Christian (I'm not sure why people don't like this kid, he's a good guy and a baller), Grant Lindsley (Paideia, Chain starting O), Patrick Roberts (Amherst), and Alex Evangelides to go along with young talent like Kanner (Sophomore), Patrick Roberts (Junior), and Jerome (Junior?), this team is looking not only young, but very mature.
Sam sprained his ankle in the game against Georgia last year at Nationals and was out for the rest of the tournament. That combined with Jacob simply trying to do too much is what led to Carleton getting bounced in the quarters. While I've known Jacob for a long time and really like him and think he's a good player, he stuck out to me at Nationals as the one player on the team who wasn't playing team oriented Ultimate. This team, while physically small and young, is going to be a clinic of good Ultimate this year and is my early season pick to be in the finals against Wisconsin.
Of course to do that they'll have to get past Colorado. I'm pretty sure they lose Beau, and like Carleton losing Jacob, I'm not sure that's a bad thing for them. Trying to figure out a consistent, dependable game plan to play with Beau can be almost as challenging as figuring out how to play against him. Colorado still has Jolian (my pick for Callahan) and if you saw the 2007 club or college finals you know that Mac Taylor is a baller and plays big in big games (which he's quickly getting a lot of experience in). In support they have big athletes like Chris Wicus (6'3" Senior?) and Hylke Sneider (6'2" Freshman).
The Carleton vs. Colorado matchup at MLC (and hopefully a couple more times during the season) will be an interesting one with two very different styles of play - Carleton with it's skill, quickness, and fundamentals against CU with power and athleticism (not that they lack skill or fundamentals, they just aren't quite as refined and it doesn't fit their personnel as well).
An interesting side story to this college season will be whether or not four players from one high school can win Freshman of the Year in four different Regions in the same season:
Grant Lindsley (Carleton, Central)
George Stubbs (Harvard, NE)
Ollie Honderd (Michigan, GL)
Charlie Herrig or Allen Jarvis (UGA, AC)
Sorry Kyle, but AC FOTY is going to Noah Saul. Probably right on with the other three, though.
1. That's a good pic. I've been that guy before.
2. Wait, Jolian's (speaking of good picsstill in college? Yeah, he's probably the front-runner for the 'han.
3. I don't like college ultimate, but that's because I still live in the MetroEast. Nothing fun here to watch.
(Match, sorry to hijack your thread)
Eddie,
Maybe. And I would guess Charlie/Allen are the least likely of those four to win it. However, at the beginning of Paideia's season last year I thought Charlie was the best player on the team. He struggled with injuries from March onward (Hamstring) and then didn't come to the YCC because he broke his nose and orbital bone the week before in summer league. But Charlie has the fastest top speed and acceleration of that group, is the most explosive (when he's healthy) and I think has a better forehand. He's not been playing for as long, is still learning a lot and doesn't have as refined a game or fully grasp his role, but may be better than Noah. His abilities reminds me of a young Zip with a better forehand. Charlie and Noah are different types of players though and I think it could shake out either way depending on how their teams do and what roles they play for them.
As for Allen, he is as solid a youth defender as they come and when he's on offensively he is really on (but he can also be really off).
Yeah, with the hi-jacking.
Kyle- Okay, I'll open my mind up a bit and keep an eye out for Charlie on UGA. I'll want to watch out for him, anyway, if he's as good as you say. I mistakenly assumed he was at YCC's (name on roster) and I just didn't notice him.
Also, I'm with you on Carleton.
Where is Noah playing? I remember playing summer league with him when he was in high school a few years ago and there were some definitely "wow" moments.
How is Josh McCarthy psychotic? If he is considered psychotic...I would hate to know what you would think of my coaching style.
Noah Saul is at UNC.
In looking at the tournies again, yes I am sure that Fall Collegiates is probably #3. I didn't want to step on any toes (ahem, Mike Gerics).
I never said that Oregon was THE best, just ARGUABLY the best. After Ben/Seth Wiggins, and Aaron Bell left, instead of dropping off the planet, Oregon seemed to remain a top tier team. Dusty Becker and whoever else have led a great team that was not storied or veteran to beat Stanford in 2006 at regionals and make quarters this past year. I would consider this a good young team.
In light of your CUT information, I think that Carleton is a great young team and might eclipse Oregon in that category. I will say that I disagree with your comment on Goldstein. I think he led a great offensive unit. Granted I was bouncing around during quarters and watched mostly the Stanford/Texas game. There was definitely a talent/confidence drop at the handler level between Goldstein and the rest of CUT and, had he taken charge and either caught the pull or taken that first throw, I don't think Phil Vozza gets that layout D and CUT gets a chance to tie the game and maybe make semis.
As far as christian goes, on the field I think he is nasty. He played deep in Conn College's zone D despite the fact that he is 5'11" and they had John Norris who is 6'5" and he owned. I will say that a good friend of mine that was on that Conn College team felt that Christain was a bit arrogant and didn't really fit in with the rest of the team. maybe thats why he transferred to Minnesota. Best of luck to him.
As far as being wrong, I feel like I am only wrong because I am mal-informed and I am mal-informed because there isn't an objecive, clear, noncryptic ultimate data source. Something that I plan to try and change in the next year.
I will say that I love the dialog. Really great for my blog, but even better for the ultimate community. Thank you so much for all those that contribute. And like I have said before, if there is something out there that anyone wants to write or say and this might be a venue you might want to consider, please feel free to email me information or documents and I will gladly post them here.
airmatch24@gmail.com
Sean Ryan should edge Fall Collegiates for #3 fall tournament - it's the premier west coast fall tournament, and its Nationals qualifiers finished far ahead of Collegiates'.
I agree with Kyle that Jacob did not seem to fit for Carleton - a lot of times he tried to do too much (see Stanford vs. Carleton at Centex). A lot of times Carleton seemed to be Jacob and Jerome (yes, a junior) against the world. CK (junior), Sam Kanner, and Sam Roberts (senior) will step up huge this year for them.
Oregon will be very good this year, as they held on to Stout and only seemed to lose Needleman. They're definitely beatable if you can match up well against Dusty and Kevin Stout. Eli Janin just is ... he will hurt you and there's not much you can do about it.
I think that the most interesting region will be the AC, by far. UNC looks like an early favorite, but NC State, Florida, and Georgia are all coming on strong. Kurt is back for his 5th year, so Brodie is not on his own yet. Georgia picked up great players in Allen and Charlie - I always thought Allen was a ridiculous defender on the HS level, whether he can prove it in college too remains to be seen.
Colorado is looking dangerous, and Beau still has one year of eligibility, but we probably won't find out if he's actually playing until the spring when he does/doesn't show up at Trouble in Vegas. Jolian is still here, I heard Martin is staying, and Mac played great in Sarasota and against Wisconsin in the finals last year.
Wisconsin is still really strong, and they'll be looking to be the first team to repeat since UCSB. If they can maintain the same intensity they had last season, they will crush teams.
In the Great Lakes, Michigan instantly became a contender again. Neff and Ollie will help bring them back to Nationals (probably Ninals again too). But Neff only has two more years of eligibility, so Michigan will need to make the most of it.
Pittsburgh is by far the favorite in the Metro East. Even without Talle and Sean they're going to do well. They have an established system there, and I wouldn't be surprised if the broke into quarters in the next couple years.
As for AC FotY, I wouldn't rule out Lucas Darden at UNC either. I think he'll be scoring a lot of goals for UNC this year.
The NW does have its drama also - LPC, Cal, and UCSC are a lot stronger this year. Could one of them knock off Oregon or Stanford?
I think the NW is going to be pretty crazy this year.
Up at UBC we are returning basically our entire roster from last season.
Oregon always good
Stanford always good
LPC, Cal and UCSC on the rise
going to be a battle for those 2 bids
Russ
#57 UBC Ultimate
CUT will win the Central this year. The Goldstein loss is more than recouped with some incredible additions and massive growth from some budding college superstars.
Has an incoming freshman ever been on a starting line of a club championship quarter finalist? There's also a rumor circulating that Grant got accepted to Harvard, but much to the dismay of his parents, chose the self-proclaimed Harvard of the Midwest.
And Kanner has a club championship quarter finals visit under his belt now, too.
You're dead on about Christian. He's good, but the guy already has a reputation on his own team for not being well-liked. And he's been in Minnesota for, what, a couple months?
Okay okay, Wisconsin has a lot of good players, too, but they lost that one guy who won that one award.
Paideia 2007 is the best high school team ever. You know, in that lengthy, storied history of high school ultimate. And yes, I'm on the short list of people who saw both Paideia and Northwest School in person in 2007. From top to bottom, Paideia dominated their opponent's players on offense and defense.
George and Ollie both got into Carleton. I think everyone in college ultimate breathed a collective sigh of relief when they went their separate ways.
I agree that Paideia 2007 was the best HS team ever, but there were some fierce teams in 2002/2003.
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