Stanford: Putting the Payne back in SMUT

Stanford has always been one of my favorite teams and I was really interested in finding out somethings about them. Mike Payne, the coach of Stanford and President of the UPA Board of Directors, was kind enough to do a phone interview with me and I thought I would share some thoughts on Bloodthirsty for 2008.

Coaching Status

The first thing that I wanted to discuss was the coaching status of Stanford. This team has had their fair share of leadership changes over the years. Last year they were coached by Jit "Jumbo" Bhattacharya who currently plays for Revolver and was an undergrad/grad student at Stanford from '97-'02. I have never seen such a little guy have such a big voice. I think he lost it faster than I lost mine at College Nationals this past year. Evan Pearce and Dan Maidenberg have also been around to coach their alma matter. However, this year will see the return of Mike Payne who will co-coach along with Nick Handler who also plays for Revolver and has been apart of Bloodthirsty as a player and coach since 2000. Mike played for Stanford from '93-'98 making the finals in '94, '97 and '98. He also started Jam as well as contributed to the formation of Revolver for which he is the current captain. In addition to being the highest officer of the UPA. Mike previously coached Stanford from '00-'03, winning nationals with "the Faceless Army" in 2002. After a 4 year coaching hiatus, Mike is back to coach Bloodthirsty. There are a lot things that make this interesting but the one thing I will mention here is that with Mike's return, Stanford may have the ability to break into the finals, something they have gotten so close to doing the last 4 years but haven't.

Player Departures

Stanford had a fantastic 2007 where they won Santa Barbara, made the finals of both Stanford Invite and Centex, won the NW region and made semis at nationals (again). However, 12 players will not be returning in 2008, arguably the biggest loss of any team I will write about. Notable departures are 2003 NW FOTY and 3 time NW all-region, Robbie Cahill, superstar handler and defender, Nan Gao, defensive stud Doug Allen, and 2003 NE FOTY and 3 time NE all-region, Will Chen. I will say that this significant loss in talent seems to happen every year at Stanford yet they seem to reload as easily as they win their section. Mike told me that despite losing a dozen A teamers, B team prospects, new recruits and grad students will fill the void.

Play Makers in 2008

Considering that Stanford lost a significant amount of stellar fantasy players from last year, there are some new faces that will be turning heads this spring. 2008 will be the 5th and final year for all region and 2007 Callahan nominee Mark Sherwood. Mark is probably one of my favorite players to watch (despite the fact that he looks like a rooster) because he seems to never run out of gas and has so much composure. He has picked up another year of club experience playing with Revolver and should dominate on both sides of the disc. Look for Tom James to have a break out year as well as 5th year and stellar deep Ezra Schiff. Mike also informed me that Stanford will be looking to up and comer Nicolai Schlag and grad student Dan Silverstein (University of Chicago) to make plays. Another player that I think is also very dangerous (and I love to watch this kid) is junior Steve Scardato. A seemingly harmless cutter at 5'7" but has insane ups, and is a vicious deep threat.

Young Guns

Sophmore James Hansell has recently come up from Prision Experiment, Stanford's B team (good work, I always like seeing that, especially from a fun rival from my undergrad days) and will help carry the torch for Stanford in the future. Nick Greenfield, a freshman from Maryland, has exhibited great throws so far and should play a solid handler role for Bloodthirsty this year. Derek Frome is a new sophmore recruit who could be a devastating cutter, deep threat, and defensive presence.

Tournament Schedule

Stanford usually attends many tournaments per year, some that are not UPA sanctioned. This weekend they will head down to Santa Barbara where they have won the tournament the last 3 years. Next month they will make their annual trip to Hawaii for the Kaimana Klassik where they made the finals in 2002. In March they will have their home and first CCS tournament, Stanford Invite. They will then head back to Centex in late March and attend the Davis Ultimate Invite (DUI) before starting the series. DUI has always been a tourney on Stanford's radar because it gives them a great chance to play against some tough club competition, not unlike Texas with Live Logic.

Challenges and Goals

There are a lot things that will be different about ultimate for Stanford this year, the first being the line up at Stanford Invite. This year Wisconsin, Florida, and Colorado will be in attendance. Wisconsin and Florida have both won the tournament recently but have never been there at the same time. Colorado has not been to Stanford for several years and it is easy to see how the competition is going to have a "Sunday at Centex" feel. Another team that will be in Palo Alto this spring that is beginning to turn heads is Cal. So far UGMO is Stanford's biggest concern and front runner in the Northwest, in addition to perennial rival, Oregon. Santa Cruz and UBC have also looked good and Stanford is aware that their competition could be considerably different than a year ago. When I asked Mike what he thought about the teams at Stanford Invite he said, "We are going to approach Stanford Invite the same way we approach Santa Barbara or Centex. We are going to try and implement what we have learned on the practice field and at the track." Very clear, very concise, and very intense.

Another challenge that is facing Stanford is how they are going to improve. They have made semis 4 years in a row only to lose to the eventual national champ and Callahan winner. Considering that Mike was not coaching any of these 4 teams, his opinion is slightly mal-informed, but when I asked him how Stanford approaches this situation, he said:

"The way you break into the finals is to invest in the bottom 2/3rds of your team. If you continually develop talent and work your young players in with your veterans the cohesivness and synergy of your team drastically improves. Perhaps it will take time, but in the long run you will see results"

This was not an answer I was expecting. I have written about this many times and always thought that Stanford just needed a better standout, "go to" player, a Jolian Dahl, or maybe a Kurt Gibson. Cahill broke into the top 5 in the Callahan voting in 2007 but recently Stanford has failed to really produce a serious MVP candidate, at least as far as voters were concerned. However, after watching Sherwood, Cahill, Gao, and the rest of Bloodthirsty last May I can say that they are in no need of more talent. I think Mike definitely makes an interesting point and I think with his return we may see more SMUT on Sunday.

College Nationals

Aside from my continual curiosity as to what elite team representatives have to say about the new college nationals weekend, I also figured I would get an insider's perspective from the president of the UPA. When I asked Mike about the change he said:

"The UPA's mission with this change is to give the participants of college nationals the best experience possible. In joining CSTV, ultimate players will have the ability to be exposed to a larger sports media forum and this might result in a more full filling experience"

I have my issues with CSTV and they are no secret but I will concede that I think this change in college nationals is a good experiment. As a scientist I am all for new approaches and I can say that this could potentially be a huge success or a huge mistake, and the only way to find out is to try. As far as Stanford goes, their academic calendar extends well into June so discussion concerning finals is completely peripheral to college nationals. Unlike Wisconsin, Stanford will not have to worry too much about school during nationals.

Closing Thoughts

In looking at Stanford's Fall record, I was a bit worried about their season and in looking at who they have lost, it is no wonder. However, Bloodthirsty is never down and out and I am sure that they will develop the talent necessary to compete this year. I also was unaware of their coaching situation until I wrote this article and I think that Mike may play a very large role in Stanford's ability to improve in the next few years (he better, he's the freaking UPA president). Revolver has also helped keep Stanford players active through the summer as well as sharpen their disc skills.

My last question for Mike was one that I have been curious about for a long time. How does Stanford manage to stay on top of arguably one of the toughest and deepest regions year after year? He told me:

"The trick is to not focus on the short term. Teams try and rely on a pair or trio of talent to carry them for a year but after that what happens? Teams have trouble competing, recruiting and fund raising. A team needs to have long term goals and aspirations to develop a "program" not just one good season. Aside from the type of full-roster player development, we focus on here, another example of this long term commitment comes in the form of the Stanford Men's Ultimate Endowment, which is on track to reach $100K by 2010"

I have always thought Stanford to be the true example of a "polished team" and in talking with Mike, I can begin to understand the why and hows. I think we will see a lot of red and white on Sundays this year and not just because they are two most popular team colors in ultimate.

Just my thoughts

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Congrats to Sockeye, Shazaam, DoG, and Fury

Wow, this was an exciting Club Nationals and I was 1,500 miles away. I had some friends there in Sarasota feeding me information and given the results and the energy, I can only imagine what it would have been like to be there. I know that there will be lots of talk about how teams won or lost, but I just wanted to contribute some thoughts.

First off, ahh, Furious, you broke my heart. Eshk, maybe it was the new jerseys. Couldn't really get a good look at what they were sporting from the UvTv footage, but my sources say they looked cool. I suppose it’s a nice switch from their usual white. I don't think there is anything I can say about their performance considering I have no idea what it takes to win at such a high level for so long. Maybe it was CUC, ECC, Labor Day, Sectionals, Regionals, and Nationals all happening within 2.5 months. This team is stellar but this team is also getting older. Mike Grant turned 30 this summer, Lugsdin is 38, Shank and Savage are both 33. They have been at the top for nearly a decade and most of their talent could easily qualify for masters (34). Not to say that Furious is out of it forever, but they need to get some new talent. Oscar is an absolute gem considering his game experience and the fact that he is only 24(?). However, at this level, Furious has to reload and pull talent the way the likes of Sockeye, Boston, Chain, and Bravo are doing. I have spoken with folks close to Furious and it seems like this has been a problem for a long time and I think it just finally caught up with them. I will say that they did battle back and win all other games earning them 9th place. I think that they will need to get more kids like Sean Boyle, Oscar, Morgan, etc... if they are going to get back to the top in the future.

Bravo Johnny Bravo. I know they lost in a close game, but this team made a HUGE leap into their ultimate future. If you look at Bravo's performance over the last few years they have been sooo close to making the finals and now they have done it. I think that Bravo now is what sockeye was 5 years ago. You have a rich crop of young talent that is getting experience at every series tournament. With additions like Popiel and a farm system like Mama Bird, it is only a matter of time before this team wins titles. I really think that playing a team like Sockeye in the finals is really a tough draw. Had Jam beat Sockeye in semis Bravo would have easily won nationals. However, this was the first time Bravo was ever in the finals at nationals. This was Sockeye's 4th trip in a row. I can't even imagine what kind of pressure that was and I think a 15-13 game is really admirable given the circumstances. If you look at Cal in 2004, it’s a similar story. You have a team that truly dominated all year but had never made the finals, at least not recently, and they couldn't handle a fired up and charged Mama Bird and they got rolled. However, in this instance, it was a 15-13 game, not 15-7. I think Bravo is only gonna get better and they have all the pieces to win it all in 2008. I also think that their win against Jam 15-9 in power pools is their biggest win of the season. Bravo comes in under seeded at 3rd (wow, underseeded at 3rd?!? But its true) and takes down the 1 seed as effectively as they had anyone else all weekend. Good for them. I also think however that it’s a curse to not be challenged until the finals. Before the finals Bravo had not played a close game taking out the likes of GOAT, Jam, Boston, Condors, all of them by at least 4. At no point was their offense really put to the test. Their defense always earned them the breaks they needed to win. However, when you get paired with a perfect team like Sockeye, not only does your D need to get you breaks, but your offense has to be perfect and that just didn't happen. If Bravo had faced a loss or even a double game point situation they would have the motivation to make the changes they needed in their offense, but like Furious last year, they just had no real challenge until it was too late. This is not the end though, be afraid Seattle.

Phew, Sockeye, way to make it exciting. Here you have a team that could have made worlds every year in between 2004 and now. They won it all in 2004, made the finals against Furious in 2005, losing, but they still woulda made World's. They win it all last year, so they would have been in, but in 2007, pulses were raised. You have a late season loss to Furious resulting in a 2 seed at nationals and you have to play a RED HOT and peaking Bravo not to mention an elite and experienced San Francisco Jam. I suppose it was lucky Furious wasn't at their best, because I cannot imagine how Sockeye could persevere through another challenge. They did however, This team is at dynasty status. I think they should be mentioned with DoG and NYNY. They might only have 3 titles but talent is more distributed now than it was in the 90s. There are better athletes, more youngsters and more teams. Sockeye is second to none and I am really glad to see them make it to Vancouver. They are the best team and I am proud to have them represent the USA next year. I was however kind of looking forward to writing of a Bravo/Sockeye upset that would have put Bravo in Vancouver instead of the Fish. That would have been a money blog entry, but alas, the Seattle boys are clutch and Sam O'Brien is a lucky (albeit extremely talented) SOB. Good luck next year.

Jam, way to battle back. This team really showed that they are not out of it. They deserve to be at the top. It goes to show you that at this level, it’s not all about personnel. You can't just throw together the best in the game and expect to win. You have to have a team dynamic and Jam has now earned that, either that or it’s all Damien Scott. I am sure disappointment is a total understatement when talking about Justice League, but as bad as Kevin Cissna, and Idris, and Bart must have felt, they must feel considerably better now then a year ago. They have completely redeemed themselves and have set the tone for their program in the future. Recruiting, reputation, all of that is now taken care of and this program will be the elite for years to come. My only criticism, the jerseys, come on, really? Could they have been any uglier.

Boston, way to really revamp while still keeping your competition at an impeccable level. Folks, if you want to start your own team, take notes. You have a team like Justice League, which basically did the same thing last year, only did not make it out of NW regionals when there were 4 bids. Boston however, not only in the face of intense competition in New England (and believe me the gap between regional champ and 3rd place is A LOT closer than anywhere else I have played), you also have to play against your former team mates. Forch, Sam Rosenthal, and Danny Clark had to make it to nationals when BVH and Bailey were suited up with other teams. They didn’t have to play each other in the finals at regionals but they sure as hell had to face them at Boston Invite not to mention know that during the series their former best was now trying to take their bid to nationals. But they did it. They looked opposition in the face, they totally revamped and recruited a whole new team with non-Boston Open players in Teddy, Goldstein, Gibson, and Jasper. Not to mention the fact that they still won NE regionals AGAIN. Forch still lead his team to greatness despite immense pressure from every angle (myself included). Hats off and you truly are one of the best programs this game has ever seen.

GOAT, holy crap, who ever thought this team was going to make semis? I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. There is this Canadian team that is making a run at the finals and it’s NOT Furious? They AREN’T from the northwest? How is this possible? Take a team that no one knows about, they have been there before, but 55-4 going into nationals? They won Boston Invite? Who are these guys? I think Hassell did a great job taking this team to a new level and I am so glad that the North East is opening up its talent pool. I think Boston is a great team but come on, they have won the region like 12 years in a row. A sectionals streak that long, fine, but regionals? It is nice to know that Boston has a challenge and these guys are only gonna get better. A turfed game winner will not happen next year. Forch’s layout D may get them the disc back on double game point, but only if GOAT gives up 4 breaks again. This team should strike fear in the hearts of Boston, but that will only make them better. That will give Boston the fire and the motivation to revamp and keep themselves honest. Its not Metal where you have a team of pseudo-Boston wannabes, you have a new program that plays in a different country that doesn’t play your brand of disc. It’s good for all parties and I am really proud of GOAT and am sooo glad they have off-centered jerseys, cuz my club team does to and GOAT is the reason why.

Sub Zero, yikes, boy was I wrong about this team. I hope folks see Sub Zero’s results and realize how good Wisconsin really is. Ok, they were a 5 seed and were expected to make quarters, but come on, how many national champs USED to play for Sub Zero. Nord, Chase, Sam O’Brien, and I am sure there are more. Plus you lose a player like Goldstein and your whole program is basically Madison college kids. They came off a national championship, but I have always thought that a club team cannot win if all their talent and experience comes from college kids. That was Bravo’s problem in years past. You have JV and Chicken and Richter all in their early 20s leading a team against players that have been playing since they were in Junior High. I think Sub Zero really showed themselves to be a young yet legit organization. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to recruit players to go to Minnesota but they do it or at least win with what they have. I am impressed and these guys, if they keep it up, are really gonna make/keep a name for themselves.

Chain, way to snap out of it. I have been watching Chain really closely this year because I had really high expectations. They were a semis team last year and they picked up ZIpp. How is that not a recipe for success? However, all year they had forgettable performances. They got owned at ECC, they were a 13 seed, they didn’t even win their region. They lost out to Double Wide who wasn’t even at nationals last year. I don’t know how but they got it done. Hammond and Simpson and Dylan all played their cards right and almost made it back to semis despite criticism (at least from me). Good work.

Condors, I liked seeing their results this year. I know that they didn’t exactly dominate but they did well. They have nothing to regret and they have really showed that they are not down and out. After 2005 and 2006 I was really wondering what it was gonna take to get these guys to win again. I feel like ultimate teams move in cycles and I hope Furious takes a lesson from Santa Barbara. The Condors were 1-5 in pool pay over the last 2 years yet they managed to go 2-1 this year. I suppose Jimmy Chu is quite the pick up, must be the Ninja Leggings he wears. I think this team will be able to recruit the best from a great UCSB team and hold on to talent that they have lost to co-ed and other teams.

Truck Stop. To be perfectly honest, I don’t know anything about this team. I know they are from DC but they did have a HUGE win that will never be forgotten in ultimate. They come out on Thursday and take down Furious in pool play as the 12 seed (3rd in their pool). Since 2002 (cuz that’s as far back as I could find) Furious is undefeated in pool play, that’s 15 straight wins on Thursday. I suppose that sort of win really propels a team and it did to the quarters play-in where they actually won, something that has not happened since 2005. Good for them and hopefully they can build the personnel to challenge Ring for that regional championship.

I should also give props to Shazaam, I think their dominance was only questioned twice this year. A loss to Brass at Labor Day and a pool play loss to Rival. However, much like Stanford Bloodthirsty did in 2002 when they lost to Davis in pool play at Davis, Bestock and the rest of the Seattle crew came back with a vengeance and macheted their way through bracket play. I also find it interesting that Bestock went from a national champ open player to a national champ co-ed player. I don’t know many folks that have done that. Jimmy went from Shazaam to Sockeye but I find this reverse migration interesting.

I also have to give it up for Parinella and the DoG guys. I find it really cool that after their exodus from Boston they immediately showed that they are still really really good with stellar, composed play in every game, 4 of which were within 2 points. I also think that its funny that they ditched the team name “Big Ego” and just went back to their roots with “DoG”. I am really glad I got the chance to play against this team, and sorry Parinella, I am also glad Korber tossed that world’s greatest to Linneman and we won at WMO.

As far as women go, it would be nice to see more parity. Not to take anything away from Fury or Riot, they are fantastic teams, but not many folks want to keep seeing a NW/NW final. Fury is amazing though. I remember when I was an undergrad with Alicia White and she was UCSD Psycho’s go to woman. I never thought I would see her get this far. I suppose I just didn’t know what I was around at the time. Good work.

I would love to write more about more teams, I just don’t have the information. Great work all around to teams like Slow White, AMP, Barrio, Lady Godiva, Machine, Rival, you all played very well in your respective divisions and I am really glad I know some players out there on these teams, great job and enjoy the winter break.

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